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PeaceandLaug... vs BnasBnas is on FIRE! 10+ wins in a row!Bnas is on FIRE! 10+ wins in a row!
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KDOTCARTER vs Mizz AmmoMizz Ammo is on FIRE! 10+ wins in a row!Mizz Ammo is on FIRE! 10+ wins in a row!
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SF Ghost vs KDOTCARTER
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MRS RAPPER B vs SF Ghost
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Occam vs FightsAndRap...
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PeaceandLaug... vs BnasBnas is on FIRE! 10+ wins in a row!Bnas is on FIRE! 10+ wins in a row!
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1mp4l3d vs mister jon f...
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PeaceandLaug... vs BnasBnas is on FIRE! 10+ wins in a row!Bnas is on FIRE! 10+ wins in a row!
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KDOTCARTER vs PeaceandLaug...
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  #11  
Unread 11-13-2016, 03:33 AM
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Ironic cause your fellow mod and leader of your crew literally hit my profile laughing at the outcome. You know nothing. You're just some rookie who got handed shit when he site was a wasteland. Fuck outta here and come back when you make a statement on the site.
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Unread 11-13-2016, 03:33 AM   #11
 
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Ironic cause your fellow mod and leader of your crew literally hit my profile laughing at the outcome. You know nothing. You're just some rookie who got handed shit when he site was a wasteland. Fuck outta here and come back when you make a statement on the site.
 
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  #12  
Unread 11-14-2016, 06:34 PM
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just came here cause i was tagged
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Unread 11-14-2016, 06:34 PM   #12
 
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just came here cause i was tagged
 
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  #13  
Unread 11-14-2016, 07:58 PM
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Esso Esso is on FIRE! 15+ wins in a row!Esso is on FIRE! 15+ wins in a row!Esso is on FIRE! 15+ wins in a row!
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,740
Mentioned: 671 Post(s)
Tagged: 19 Thread(s)
Estimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.19/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.19/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.19/10 stars
Basic Text Record
1010 Points / 80 Won / 19 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
79 Points / 6 Won / 1 Lost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EtH View Post
Ironic cause your fellow mod and leader of your crew literally hit my profile laughing at the outcome. You know nothing. You're just some rookie who got handed shit when he site was a wasteland. Fuck outta here and come back when you make a statement on the site.
He literally hit it, huh?

I do know you lost that battle.....the outcome says so. You've been here for how long and are only mid tier when the site is a wasteland. Your approval means so much to me Eth.

Side note, I hear your replies in my head sounding like Aran Ryan from Punch Out, so that coupled with your propensity to be holier than thou while being a mid twenties guy holding on to the glory days from his teenage years is all just too funny....please keep replying.

Last edited by Esso; 11-14-2016 at 08:02 PM.
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Unread 11-14-2016, 07:58 PM   #13
 
Esso's Avatar
Esso Esso is on FIRE! 15+ wins in a row!Esso is on FIRE! 15+ wins in a row!Esso is on FIRE! 15+ wins in a row!
Estimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.19/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.19/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.19/10 stars
Basic Text Record
1010 Points / 80 Won / 19 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
79 Points / 6 Won / 1 Lost
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Voted: 20 audio / 634 text
Posts: 1,740
Mentioned: 671 Post(s)
Tagged: 19 Thread(s)


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Quote:
Originally Posted by EtH View Post
Ironic cause your fellow mod and leader of your crew literally hit my profile laughing at the outcome. You know nothing. You're just some rookie who got handed shit when he site was a wasteland. Fuck outta here and come back when you make a statement on the site.
He literally hit it, huh?

I do know you lost that battle.....the outcome says so. You've been here for how long and are only mid tier when the site is a wasteland. Your approval means so much to me Eth.

Side note, I hear your replies in my head sounding like Aran Ryan from Punch Out, so that coupled with your propensity to be holier than thou while being a mid twenties guy holding on to the glory days from his teenage years is all just too funny....please keep replying.

Last edited by Esso; 11-14-2016 at 08:02 PM.
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  #14  
Unread 11-14-2016, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esso View Post
He literally hit it, huh?

I do know you lost that battle.....the outcome says so. You've been here for how long and are only mid tier when the site is a wasteland. Your approval means so much to me Eth.

Side note, I hear your replies in my head sounding like Aran Ryan from Punch Out, so that coupled with your propensity to be holier than thou while being a mid twenties guy holding on to the glory days from his teenage years is all just too funny....please keep replying.
"You keep talking about old shit, hanging onto your teenage glory days, now if you excuse me I'm just going to drop a 22 year old video game reference and leave".

Cool shit homie. Very modern and on point. Dude's about to start whipping out the Tron references any second now.

You're acting like you're some factor or something cause you got a coloured name and a usertitle. Bitch probably faced Lizman in the final or some shit. You're out there thinking you're hot shit cause you were the most popular guy at Student's birthday party. Bitch no one turned up, there's a reason people like you never accomplished anything when the site was alive.
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Unread 11-14-2016, 09:58 PM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esso View Post
He literally hit it, huh?

I do know you lost that battle.....the outcome says so. You've been here for how long and are only mid tier when the site is a wasteland. Your approval means so much to me Eth.

Side note, I hear your replies in my head sounding like Aran Ryan from Punch Out, so that coupled with your propensity to be holier than thou while being a mid twenties guy holding on to the glory days from his teenage years is all just too funny....please keep replying.
"You keep talking about old shit, hanging onto your teenage glory days, now if you excuse me I'm just going to drop a 22 year old video game reference and leave".

Cool shit homie. Very modern and on point. Dude's about to start whipping out the Tron references any second now.

You're acting like you're some factor or something cause you got a coloured name and a usertitle. Bitch probably faced Lizman in the final or some shit. You're out there thinking you're hot shit cause you were the most popular guy at Student's birthday party. Bitch no one turned up, there's a reason people like you never accomplished anything when the site was alive.
 
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  #15  
Unread 11-15-2016, 12:11 AM
ILLoKWENT's Avatar
ILLoKWENT ILLoKWENT is on FIRE! 30+ wins in a row!ILLoKWENT is on FIRE! 30+ wins in a row!ILLoKWENT is on FIRE! 30+ wins in a row!
Hall Of Famer
LBT King
Concept Champion
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,341
Mentioned: 2692 Post(s)
Tagged: 57 Thread(s)
Estimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 stars
Basic Audio Record
50 Points / 3 Won / 0 Lost
Exclusive Audio Record
0 Points / Won / Lost

Estimated Skill in Text: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.52/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.52/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.52/10 stars
Basic Text Record
2251 Points / 168 Won / 28 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
0 Points / Won / Lost
Default

heres why i think @EtH won, decisively... his was worded cleaner, punches werent that great but made sense and felt like actual insults., it definately beat out shodans forced wordplay that werent flipped all too creatively either.. this is just how i see it, and everyone may see strengths and weaknesses elsewhere in both, so yeah... +1 eth just based on that battle.. a pretty weak battle on both sides of the coin, but it came down to cleanliness and readability for me..and better worded punches
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Last edited by ILLoKWENT; 11-15-2016 at 12:18 AM.
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Unread 11-15-2016, 12:11 AM   #15
 
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ILLoKWENT ILLoKWENT is on FIRE! 30+ wins in a row!ILLoKWENT is on FIRE! 30+ wins in a row!ILLoKWENT is on FIRE! 30+ wins in a row!
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LBT King
Concept Champion
Estimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.04/10 stars
Basic Audio Record
50 Points / 3 Won / 0 Lost
Exclusive Audio Record
0 Points / Won / Lost

Estimated Skill in Text: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.04/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.52/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.52/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.52/10 stars
Basic Text Record
2251 Points / 168 Won / 28 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
0 Points / Won / Lost
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Voted: 82 audio / 1286 text
Posts: 2,341
Mentioned: 2692 Post(s)
Tagged: 57 Thread(s)


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heres why i think @EtH won, decisively... his was worded cleaner, punches werent that great but made sense and felt like actual insults., it definately beat out shodans forced wordplay that werent flipped all too creatively either.. this is just how i see it, and everyone may see strengths and weaknesses elsewhere in both, so yeah... +1 eth just based on that battle.. a pretty weak battle on both sides of the coin, but it came down to cleanliness and readability for me..and better worded punches
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Last edited by ILLoKWENT; 11-15-2016 at 12:18 AM.
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  #16  
Unread 11-15-2016, 05:02 AM
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Ha, I miss feuding.
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Unread 11-15-2016, 05:02 AM   #16
 
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Ha, I miss feuding.
 
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  #17  
Unread 11-15-2016, 04:46 PM
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Celsius
Heavyweight Champion
Scheme Champion
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,732
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 16 Thread(s)
Estimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 stars
Basic Audio Record
889 Points / 76 Won / 28 Lost
Exclusive Audio Record
0 Points / Won / Lost

Estimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.17/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.17/10 stars
Basic Text Record
7524 Points / 553 Won / 103 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
31 Points / 3 Won / 1 Lost
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^Punk the type to make humping motions while riding on the back of his friends motorcycle
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Unread 11-15-2016, 04:46 PM   #17
 
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Celsius
Heavyweight Champion
Scheme Champion
Estimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.14/10 stars
Basic Audio Record
889 Points / 76 Won / 28 Lost
Exclusive Audio Record
0 Points / Won / Lost

Estimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.14/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.17/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.17/10 stars
Basic Text Record
7524 Points / 553 Won / 103 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
31 Points / 3 Won / 1 Lost
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Voted: 284 audio / 2116 text
Posts: 2,732
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 16 Thread(s)


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^Punk the type to make humping motions while riding on the back of his friends motorcycle
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  #18  
Unread 11-15-2016, 08:54 PM
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Esso Esso is on FIRE! 15+ wins in a row!Esso is on FIRE! 15+ wins in a row!Esso is on FIRE! 15+ wins in a row!
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,740
Mentioned: 671 Post(s)
Tagged: 19 Thread(s)
Estimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.19/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.19/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.19/10 stars
Basic Text Record
1010 Points / 80 Won / 19 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
79 Points / 6 Won / 1 Lost
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EtH View Post
"You keep talking about old shit, hanging onto your teenage glory days, now if you excuse me I'm just going to drop a 22 year old video game reference and leave".

Cool shit homie. Very modern and on point. Dude's about to start whipping out the Tron references any second now.

You're acting like you're some factor or something cause you got a coloured name and a usertitle. Bitch probably faced Lizman in the final or some shit. You're out there thinking you're hot shit cause you were the most popular guy at Student's birthday party. Bitch no one turned up, there's a reason people like you never accomplished anything when the site was alive.
Haha! You voted for me in that final, buddy. You called me a rookie a couple posts back....youre right...there is a reason i didnt accomplish anything while the site was alive...I wasn't here. All this shit is such sour grapes its hilarious. I respect Illokwent's opinion and he's entitled to it....but punches that make absolutely no sense (Shodan has nothing to do with martial arts) are worse than poorly executed wordplay any day of the week.

What's Tron? I was talking about the Wii version from like 5 years ago, especially since the SNES version didnt really talk...not that it's important, or surprising you brought up somethng from ancient history...seems to be your m.o.
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Unread 11-15-2016, 08:54 PM   #18
 
Esso's Avatar
Esso Esso is on FIRE! 15+ wins in a row!Esso is on FIRE! 15+ wins in a row!Esso is on FIRE! 15+ wins in a row!
Estimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.19/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.19/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.19/10 stars
Basic Text Record
1010 Points / 80 Won / 19 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
79 Points / 6 Won / 1 Lost
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Voted: 20 audio / 634 text
Posts: 1,740
Mentioned: 671 Post(s)
Tagged: 19 Thread(s)


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EtH View Post
"You keep talking about old shit, hanging onto your teenage glory days, now if you excuse me I'm just going to drop a 22 year old video game reference and leave".

Cool shit homie. Very modern and on point. Dude's about to start whipping out the Tron references any second now.

You're acting like you're some factor or something cause you got a coloured name and a usertitle. Bitch probably faced Lizman in the final or some shit. You're out there thinking you're hot shit cause you were the most popular guy at Student's birthday party. Bitch no one turned up, there's a reason people like you never accomplished anything when the site was alive.
Haha! You voted for me in that final, buddy. You called me a rookie a couple posts back....youre right...there is a reason i didnt accomplish anything while the site was alive...I wasn't here. All this shit is such sour grapes its hilarious. I respect Illokwent's opinion and he's entitled to it....but punches that make absolutely no sense (Shodan has nothing to do with martial arts) are worse than poorly executed wordplay any day of the week.

What's Tron? I was talking about the Wii version from like 5 years ago, especially since the SNES version didnt really talk...not that it's important, or surprising you brought up somethng from ancient history...seems to be your m.o.
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  #19  
Unread 11-16-2016, 03:43 AM
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Shodan
One Bar Champion
Fair Voters Club
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,889
Mentioned: 1152 Post(s)
Tagged: 56 Thread(s)
Estimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 stars
Basic Audio Record
5 Points / 2 Won / 4 Lost
Exclusive Audio Record
0 Points / Won / Lost

Estimated Skill in Text: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.58/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.58/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.58/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.58/10 stars
Basic Text Record
747 Points / 97 Won / 61 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
2 Points / 3 Won / 6 Lost
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esso View Post
(Shodan has nothing to do with martial arts)
Actually, it does. It refers to the lowest black belt rank in a Japanese martial art. Not to be confused with the AI from System Shock, a strong amateur's rank in the board game Go (which is where I got the name from), or the hacker search engine.
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Spoiler for A wise man once said:
"Wtf are yaw readin nigga this nigga dont even make ssince and have the niggas who comment be garbage but tryna give at vice i been in real battles for money and won i haven't seen not one hot verse on here accept maybe a couple yaw some fuckin haters o. Me i punch this nigga like a speed bag smoked boots"

- space_dabree, discussing the outcome of his battle with Shodan.


Jesus said, "Come forth, and ye shall receive eternal life." I came fifth and won a toaster​
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Unread 11-16-2016, 03:43 AM   #19
 
Shodan's Avatar
Shodan
One Bar Champion
Fair Voters Club
Estimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 6.18/10 stars
Basic Audio Record
5 Points / 2 Won / 4 Lost
Exclusive Audio Record
0 Points / Won / Lost

Estimated Skill in Text: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.18/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.58/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.58/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.58/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 6.58/10 stars
Basic Text Record
747 Points / 97 Won / 61 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
2 Points / 3 Won / 6 Lost
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Voted: 35 audio / 932 text
Posts: 2,889
Mentioned: 1152 Post(s)
Tagged: 56 Thread(s)


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esso View Post
(Shodan has nothing to do with martial arts)
Actually, it does. It refers to the lowest black belt rank in a Japanese martial art. Not to be confused with the AI from System Shock, a strong amateur's rank in the board game Go (which is where I got the name from), or the hacker search engine.
__________________
Spoiler for A wise man once said:
"Wtf are yaw readin nigga this nigga dont even make ssince and have the niggas who comment be garbage but tryna give at vice i been in real battles for money and won i haven't seen not one hot verse on here accept maybe a couple yaw some fuckin haters o. Me i punch this nigga like a speed bag smoked boots"

- space_dabree, discussing the outcome of his battle with Shodan.


Jesus said, "Come forth, and ye shall receive eternal life." I came fifth and won a toaster​
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  #20  
Unread 11-16-2016, 11:44 AM
Esso's Avatar
Esso Esso is on FIRE! 15+ wins in a row!Esso is on FIRE! 15+ wins in a row!Esso is on FIRE! 15+ wins in a row!
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,740
Mentioned: 671 Post(s)
Tagged: 19 Thread(s)
Estimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.19/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.19/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.19/10 stars
Basic Text Record
1010 Points / 80 Won / 19 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
79 Points / 6 Won / 1 Lost
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ṠȟȍƋăⓝ View Post
Actually, it does. It refers to the lowest black belt rank in a Japanese martial art. Not to be confused with the AI from System Shock, a strong amateur's rank in the board game Go (which is where I got the name from), or the hacker search engine.
The search engine and the video game were actually where I'd heard it from before...I stand corrected. Eth's punch made sense and I might actually have swung the battle the other way as a result. Oh well...
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Unread 11-16-2016, 11:44 AM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by ṠȟȍƋăⓝ View Post
Actually, it does. It refers to the lowest black belt rank in a Japanese martial art. Not to be confused with the AI from System Shock, a strong amateur's rank in the board game Go (which is where I got the name from), or the hacker search engine.
The search engine and the video game were actually where I'd heard it from before...I stand corrected. Eth's punch made sense and I might actually have swung the battle the other way as a result. Oh well...
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