tbh

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Nicholas

I feel like you're zoning in on a minor point though with the designs. I posted a long post when we started this conversation outlining dozens of reasons. As I said in an earlier post for all I cared NOBLE could have designed the awards himself. I suggested that the awards system be taken advantage of more and that awards were proactively given out. NOBLE insisted that the awards system as it is now was working fine but said he wouldn't be opposed to adding in some more awards for meeting a certain number of posts '1000 posts' etc. Which I think actually got implemented in the end but my initial plans were far more extensive than that.

At a time when people wanted to decrease the amount of user titles, awards could of been used as an alternative and been made to have been seen as valuable to users. Instead we got what we have now, a few discrete awards that people still don't care about. This comes back to my question to NOBLE which was what has he done as an administrator since my absence. My ideas weren't seen as worthy so what was the alternative? What have we been given in their place....

First you suggest I'm responsible for the drop in activity because I wasn't supportive of competitions and got rid of incentives like titles, etc. Now you're saying people themselves at the time wanted to decrease the amount of titles and awards could have been use to replace them but....what? You're not making much sense fam, and you're contradicting yourself. People DID want to get rid of titles and I DID replace them with awards. Does anyone recall Mafia Winner and Forum Tourney Winner awards? Across the board, from Topicals to Exclusive and FVC, no one has added more awards than me in the last few years. I've been one of the biggest advocate of utilizing the award system more. Yes, I might have rejected some of your award ideas because I didn't feel the Exclusive Arena had been active enough at that point to merit the creation of as many awards as you wanted. But I did agree that we should create some and I did implement your idea of voting awards (which wasn't your idea alone as X-Calibur and others had suggested the same thing) and I let staff know that it was your idea when I put it across to them for consideration. You wanted and asked to hand out awards and be the awards mod which I rejected and said you should only hand out Exclusive awards since you are the Exclusive mod and other mods will handle the rest of the awards. Is that what you mean by "NOBLE insisted that the awards system as it is now was working fine?" This crying over not having your way is petty, and trying to blame the drop in activity on my not having adopted them to the letter is ridiculous. You're giving yourself way too much credit mate. Why don't you list all these miracle ideas of yours which would have averted ultimate calamity exactly as you presented them to me and let's all examine not only which ones I adopted and rejected but also how my not having adopted them to the letter has resulted in the drop in activity?

[V3numb]

im still saltyt about my 2x Mafia winner Title turning into awards.. : /

[Mindless]

@Student, @Indianapolis Jones, @WHOeverelsewasmodwheniwasdoingshitaroundhere

Didn't I come up with doing the awards system too? I seem to remember having to add a bunch of shit to that modules settings and creating a ton of rewards after it got added in and spending hours fucking around with it. Anybody to confirm? #ItdoesntmatterbutImprettysureIdidthataswell. kek

[Student]

Originally Posted by Mindless

@Student, @Indianapolis Jones, @WHOeverelsewasmodwheniwasdoingshitaroundhere

Didn't I come up with doing the awards system too? I seem to remember having to add a bunch of shit to that modules settings and creating a ton of rewards after it got added in and spending hours fucking around with it. Anybody to confirm? #ItdoesntmatterbutImprettysureIdidthataswell. kek

I wasn't behind the scenes at that time, you were still telling folks not to approve my crew lmao

Originally Posted by NOBLE

First you suggest I'm responsible for the drop in activity because I wasn't supportive of competitions and got rid of incentives like titles, etc. Now you're saying people themselves at the time wanted to decrease the amount of titles and awards could have been use to replace them but....what? You're not making much sense fam, and you're contradicting yourself. People DID want to get rid of titles and I DID replace them with awards. Does anyone recall Mafia Winner and Forum Tourney Winner awards? Across the board, from Topicals to Exclusive and FVC, no one has added more awards than me in the last few years. I've been one of the biggest advocate of utilizing the award system more. Yes, I might have rejected some of your award ideas because I didn't feel the Exclusive Arena had been active enough at that point to merit the creation of as many awards as you wanted. But I did agree that we should create some and I did implement your idea of voting awards (which wasn't your idea alone as X-Calibur and others had suggested the same thing) and I let staff know that it was your idea when I put it across to them for consideration. You wanted and asked to hand out awards and be the awards mod which I rejected and said you should only hand out Exclusive awards since you are the Exclusive mod and other mods will handle the rest of the awards. Is that what you mean by "NOBLE insisted that the awards system as it is now was working fine?" This crying over not having your way is petty, and trying to blame the drop in activity on my not having adopted them to the letter is ridiculous. You're giving yourself way too much credit mate. Why don't you list all these miracle ideas of yours which would have averted ultimate calamity exactly as you presented them to me and let's all examine not only which ones I adopted and rejected but also how my not having adopted them to the letter has resulted in the drop in activity?

Yes, when the activity drops the responsibility falls to two people. Yourself and Pugz. For some reason this site believes it can get away with blaming users for a lack of activity. If I was lacking business I wouldn't blame my clients for not booking in regularly. That's YOUR problem, not ours.

Yes, at the time people wanted a reduction in user titles and you were more than happy to facilitate this. Throwing in two new awards is not adequate replacement of user titles. That's lazy. You failed to build any value to the awards system. I didn't want to be an awards moderator, I said there is a need for one and I don't mind doing it. If you had chosen someone else to do it I wouldn't of been offended, the main point is there was there was a need for one. Awards were not handed out proactively, people had to request them and I felt that handing them out proactively would of been a good first step to building value. A lot of users don't even post on the forums, they will have paid very little attention to the awards. You chose not to implement this idea of an awards moderator to hand them out proactively, you failed to build any value (it would of taken more than just an award moderator to do this) and guess what? People still don't give a fuck about awards.

You're right you didn't want more awards for the exclusive section. I was trying to build up a section and I was refused user titles, refused awards and my PPV was criticized and dragged down at the very first hurdle. You said earlier you were supportive? How do you justify that? It sounds to me like you had your heart set on removing the section at the time. An action you didn't even end up taking which doesn't surprise me at all. Change is not welcome here.

My ideas were not miracles that would save the site, but they were a step in the right direction. As @Godbody said earlier, tons of people have had good ideas on this site. You are an administrator, how many of those ideas have you implemented? Were they all bad ideas? You chose not to implement my ideas and that's fine, if you had a better plan. You've dodged my question though what have you done? What was your better plan? As a user I'm not seeing good results here.

---------- Post added at 03:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 AM ----------

Originally Posted by V3numb

im still saltyt about my 2x Mafia winner Title turning into awards.. : /

Exactly, that's because awards have no value. If people valued the awards, we would all think your mafia awards were dope.

Originally Posted by Mindless

@Student, @Indianapolis Jones, @WHOeverelsewasmodwheniwasdoingshitaroundhere

Didn't I come up with doing the awards system too? I seem to remember having to add a bunch of shit to that modules settings and creating a ton of rewards after it got added in and spending hours fucking around with it. Anybody to confirm? #ItdoesntmatterbutImprettysureIdidthataswell. kek

Great, I'm not the first to suggest this idea. Why has it been suggested by so many of us but not built up properly?

[J u s T C]

Originally Posted by Mindless

@Student, @Indianapolis Jones, @WHOeverelsewasmodwheniwasdoingshitaroundhere

Didn't I come up with doing the awards system too? I seem to remember having to add a bunch of shit to that modules settings and creating a ton of rewards after it got added in and spending hours fucking around with it. Anybody to confirm? #ItdoesntmatterbutImprettysureIdidthataswell. kek

That might of been the forum emotes.

[Mindless]

@Nicholas If I remember correctly I'm the one that got X to install the module in the first place and started adding in awards to it and we (Meaning myself, X, and some other staff members.) went about trying to figure out how everything should be structured with what was in there for battle and track ratings, wins, etc. I mean, sure, you can expand it tons more but there's a lot more of those awards than you probably think there are. I can't look at it anymore (Because I'm a dick kek) but off the top of my head I know there are at least fifty or sixty in there with various levels of awards for different sections of the site. I think that might have been one of the ones that X was really involved in. Or maybe it was Pugz. I'm not entirely sure. I definitely remember spending hours in the admin CP ordering things and trying to get that shit structured right. I might have a look in the staff boards later and see if I can find a thread about that.

Originally Posted by Indianapolis Jones

That might of been the forum emotes.

Yeah. That was me too.

[NOBLE]

This is more of a community than a business/client relationship. The primary product here is Hip Hop and Rap battles, and me and Pugz are not the ones dropping all the Rap battles. Yes, we have primary responsibilities when it comes to site maintenance and promotions, but being a part of an online community means everyone plays a part and share in the responsibility. It's perfectly okay to to hold someone accountable for their role like you are now asking me what have I done as administrator, but you should be prepared to ask yourself the same question. What have you done in whatever role or capacity that you've played? What stands out in my mind when I think of Nicholas's tenure as an Exclusive moderator is a tourney where everyone no-showed (not totally his responsibility since each battler had their own responsibility to show up), and him just leaving (without resigning or giving a heads up) the post after he didn't get things done exactly the way he wanted. Your opinion about "proactive" award giving is arguable because, on the one hand, we DO "proactively" hand out some awards without people applying for them. Awards such as tourney trophies are usually given upon tourneys completing without being applied for. Other awards like "forum top poster" usually aren't given out until people ask for them. In order to argue awards gain more value on the basis that they are "proactively" handed out, we don't need a hypothetical scenario where all awards are given that way. We only need to simply look at the effects between the ones we already give out "proactively" and the ones we don't. Have we seen an increase in tournament sign ups since these awards are given out proactively? Have we seen a decrease in forum activity since forum top poster awards haven't been given out proactively? Besides that, there have actually been incidents when people were given awards proactively then they end up asking us to remove it because they didn't want it and that's why they didn't apply for it in the first place. Another thing to consider, which makes your theory of proactive award giving arguable, is that people usually value things more when they have to strive for it rather than when it is dropped on their lap. The things you work for, you usually end up valuing more than the things you attain without effort. Going to the awards page to apply for awards doesn't take a monumental amount of effort, but t does give more of the added satisfaction of seeking and attaining than an award that you have not even thought about showing up in your inbox.
As you can see @Nicholas, I like typing novels as responses to forum conversations, and NO, I am not trying to avoid your question of what have I done as administrator since your absence. At first I wasn't sure if it was a serious or rhetorical question to minimize my efforts for this site, but now I'll have to ask you to narrow it down to a specific time frame because I honestly don't know the exact time period you were absent. I will gladly tell you what I have done within that time frame.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Nicholas

I'm not holding a grudge in the slightest, this isn't personal this is me putting out the facts. I would of probably kept quiet about this if I was still bothered about striving forwards with this site as I did when I left without saying a word. How were you supportive? You VETO'd everything I put forwards. I didn't fail miserably, I wasn't allowed out of the starting blocks before I was shot down by yourself and some other moderators that had contributed nothing of note in years. The fact that you're claiming credit for the awards idea is a flat lie. If it was your idea or you thought it had merit (at the time you told me there was nothing wrong with the awards system as it is) then why have you done nothing with the awards since I left? By designing the awards I was doing your job anyway! I was the exclusive moderator not an administrator or site designer. If you didn't like the awards but liked the idea you should of done them yourself. I was doing you a favour.

Yes, as the exclusive moderator I wanted to be involved in the discussion about the future of the section I was running. I'm sorry that came as a shock to you, I know there is a culture of not giving a shit among the staff and I didn't follow those traditions laid before me.

The bottom line is not my inability to work with other people. I do that as a career. The bottom line is the staff are not motivated to pursue change. Since I've left one thing has changed.... you've changed the skin. And guess what? That's probably the biggest change that's came to this site in years. Go figure. So when Letsbeef isn't attracting a new audience how can we as users be surprised? If we want progress on this site then people need to be hired. Motivated financially.

NOBLE your hypocrisy in saying I failed as an Exclusive Moderator is bewildering. Here's one simple question. What have you done in the time since I left?

I'm just now noticing this response. Please list every idea you suggested to me exactly how you suggested it and let's look at what I vetoed and what I didn't. It's easy to make these accusations and paint this picture of me being an obstructionist, but I want people to be able to look at it concretely and come to their own conclusions. In my view, I implemented the gist of everything you wanted. You might have wanted 20 voting award categories whereas I narrowed it down to 10...I STILL implemented voting awards. You might have wanted to be involved in the staff conversation by having access to the thread whereas I involved you by updating you on the convo via IM and representing your view within the thread. Everything you asked for, I gave it to you in some way shape or form even though it might not have been the exact way you wanted it. You INSISTED on designing the icons yourself. I was the one who suggested you adding some Exclusive awards in the first place then I gave you that icons site to choose from off bat. I even gave and showed you how you can access the modcp and give out awards. Let's keep in mind that I wasn't the one who made you an Exclusive mod in the first place and you attained that post in my absence, yet you hadn't been shown all this. You responded saying you looked at it and you didn't like anything you saw on the icons site and wanted to design your own to which I said "fine." Lol @ doing me a favor and doing my job. I think you're having a Brian Williams moment when it comes to your recollection of all this. I never asked you to design the awards. You insisted on that. So you left the site after the whole Exclusive Mod fiasco. When exactly did you come back? I'm asking so that I know which time period to answer your question of what have I done for the site in your absence. Will you please list every idea you suggested to me exactly how you suggested it so that we may look at what I vetoed and what I didn't and let's measure what you did as Exclusive moderator and whether it was impacted by the sort of obstructionism you describe?

How about yall get some shit done instead of talking about it.. Motivate the members by posting actual content instead of threads like these. All you get out of these threads is a bunch of cosigns but no action.