What are your feelings on Abortion?

[Student]

Originally Posted by ViTRiOL

You do realise that your case pretty much makes you pro-choice?

You listed all of the valid reasons why abortion should be an option. Do you even logic bro?

I'm In The Middle But I Tend To Lean Towards Pro Life, If All Of Those Options Aren't Meant I Think They Should Keep It.

Originally Posted by ViTRiOL

So if a girl is "stupid enough" to get raped and impregnated, she should have to go through the horrendously body-shattering process of childbirth and give away her child?

Before flying off the handle, read the "Only in cases where stupid enough is applicable". There's very few cases where the sentence "stupid enough to get raped works out.

Originally Posted by ViTRiOL

I don't think you understand pregnancy really, EtH. Everything that goes with it isn't "short term physical consequences", let alone physical; what about post-natal depression? My mum was dangerously low for five years and nearly took her own life.

I'm AGAINST depression. Depression is a state of quitting. Allowing yourself to wallow. I can absolutely guarantee you that I will never be depressed in my entire life. I literally don't understand it though so I try to avoid judgement.

But that aside, I don't think you understand what post-natal depression is. A lot of the time it's a detachment from your child, not the physical act of pregnancy. If someone straight up doesn't want their child, put it up for adoption, thats what my point is. The physical effects are VERY rarely long lasting.

Originally Posted by ViTRiOL

That's a tangent. I think abortion should be a choice made by the bearer of the pregnancy and the bearer alone. Fetuses/zygotes don't have a CNS or any sort of consciousness so if the retarded pro-lifers saw sense and pertained to scientific proof then the whole "crisis" would be a lot more obsolete.

So a father has absolutely no right in the birth of his child? I couldn't be more against that. The fact that 10 years ago judges ruled in custody cases of the mothers over the father based on some absolutely mythological idea that the word maternal overpowers paternal is utterly disgusting to me.

Originally Posted by ViTRiOL

And true, there is a distinct biological bias towards the female in terms of pregnancies. But the truth is, physically they are responsible. In no way does a man have any physical effects from the pregnancy, perhaps to an extent mentally and a certain amount of sentimentality attached to it. In most circumstances, the individuals involved rationalise the situation and make a decision: Barring that though, I feel that the female should be the one making the final decision as they are the prime bearers of all the physical and mental consequences that go along with an unwanted pregnancy.

The physical effects in 2014 aren't major. It's 9 months of things being fairly shit, but then it's over and done with. The instinctive and mental bond completely trashes the physical one.

If I want a child, and the girl that's pregnant aborts it without us ever coming to some sort of agreement (because it's her 'right'), that imo should be complete fair grounds to knock a bitch the fuck out.

[Louie Dawgs]

Generally against.

I would put it this way, my problem is the question of when something is a person. Is a being that can breathe a person? Is a being that can feel pain a person? Is a being with a working heart a person? At what point does something change from being a biological mass to being an actual person??

I dont' fucking know, so I am generally against abortion. I say generally because there is a time aspect involved. I don't think that an egg with sperm attached is a person, there does have to be some form of "human-ness", as in they actually have to resemble a person and have some functioning organs to be considered. I am alright with abortion extremely early in the process, but I would never support late term or partial birth abortion.

I'm going to go out and say that the "pain" thing isn't really relevant. Babies bang their head hard, and if you make them laugh quick enough they forget that pain's even supposed to be resonating. A child of a pre-birth level of conciousness isn't able to have the awareness of pain. It's basically like claiming someone is hurting a tree by cutting it down.

[ViTRiOL]

Originally Posted by Dave

I'm AGAINST depression. Depression is a state of quitting. Allowing yourself to wallow. I can absolutely guarantee you that I will never be depressed in my entire life. I literally don't understand it though so I try to avoid judgement.

But that aside, I don't think you understand what post-natal depression is. A lot of the time it's a detachment from your child, not the physical act of pregnancy. If someone straight up doesn't want their child, put it up for adoption, thats what my point is. The physical effects are VERY rarely long lasting.

Now I don't think you understand depression either. Seeing as depression can be a mood disorder (in the form of major depressive disorder, manic depression etc.) and has been clinically proven and published within the DSM IV as a mental disorder with biological statistics (low production of serotonin and dopamine, depression of the central nervous system, hormone dysfunction).

You're doing nothing but judge without any real weight behind your overall rebuke. You just simply believe that pregnancy can't physically affect a woman for the rest of her life (which in a lot of cases occurs) and that depression is nothing more than a transient mood-swing? Shit man, you need to read more.

Originally Posted by Dave

So a father has absolutely no right in the birth of his child? I couldn't be more against that. The fact that 10 years ago judges ruled in custody cases of the mothers over the father based on some absolutely mythological idea that the word maternal overpowers paternal is utterly disgusting to me.

And I never said a father has no right to the birth of a child. I said that the individuals involved in the pregnancy "situation" usually discuss and rationalise, but I still don't think a male has the right to tell a woman to either go through with the childbirth or have the abortion. That's called shirking the physical rights of a human being.

^I was gonna say, Depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain, nothing you can do about it. Whereas, weak minded people always feeling pity on themselves rather than bucking the fuck up, is what Dave was referring to.

[ViTRiOL]

Keynote:

Postnatal depression (Postpartum depression) is a combination of prenatal neuroses, an influx and thus imbalance of hormones combined with an Oxycontin and vitamin deficit.

I think Dave is solid in his views but he has very little empathy.

Oh shit, I was expecting empathy from EtH...

---------- Post added at 04:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Enfinite

^I was gonna say, Depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain, nothing you can do about it. Whereas, weak minded people always feeling pity on themselves rather than bucking the fuck up, is what Dave was referring to.

I don't think he distinguished between them. Wallowing isn't in the same ballpark as depression.

---------- Post added at 04:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:13 AM ----------

Overall though, this argument is quite redundant.

A lot of the legislation behind this is written by men who are never going to have to make this decision. Regarding abortion, why should any of us have an opinion on it? It's not our decision and our views shouldn't affect the decisions or, darkly, the mandatory procedure that'll have to take place if this invasive pontificating continues.

I don't like to make decisions about other people's uteri so henceforth pro-choice is literally the only way to go unless you're some sort of Nazified bigot.

[Jesse Pinkman]

depression isn't something you can consciously avoid..as stated earlier its a genetic deficiency..where as always feeling sad for yourself borderlines egotistical/HPD in my opinion


the problem with moral situations like abortion, is everyone has a stance until it happens to them or directly affects them..end of the day, its not the doctor, mother, teacher, politician, ect. getting the treatment done - its the girl/woman..it should be her choice

[IV]

I think it's very easy for men to comment on it either way. If a woman get's pregnant from a drunken mistake, yes that's her own fault but a baby shouldn't be seen as a punishment for a mistake. The man in that situation would never have to feel anything, he'd just go home and high five his friends that he got laid.

But seriously most women wouldn't know how they felt about it until it happened. Some people might be convinced that they'd get rid of it because it's never happened to them, but if it did happen they might not be able to.. i've seen that happen. And I've also seen people who don't agree with abortion end up getting an abortion because of their current situation.

I think our lives get restricted enough without people telling women that they have to have a child.

---------- Post added at 12:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 PM ----------

And Dave I agree with your comment about the father rights too. If a girl aborts a child that the guy wants then that isn't fair at all. But as far as the physical thing, it's not just that, it's not 9 months of things being shit.. it's what the woman could have been doing in those 9 months to build her planned future, and the fact they're never going to be able to have the same life again, when 9 out of 10 times the man's life doesn't really change at all. He will still continue on his career path and MOST OF THE TIME (yes i understand there's exceptions to everything) it's the woman who gives her life up to raise a child.

[Aggo]