Conversation between EtH and NOBLE

[NOBLE]

Me and EtH had this debate about Rap music and topicals. I just want to know what you guys think. Are topicals separate from Rap? Is Rap music poetry?

NOBLE
cool
you know the audio topicals are scheduled for next month?
8:04pmEtH
Yeah? To me, that's just audio with a storyline, not related imo
8:14pmNOBLE
you don't want to run it?
its actually scheduled for July http://www.letsbeef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124538
8:18pmEtH
To me, it's not topicals. It doesn't involve ANY of the main components which make topicals what they are.
It's basically just rapping with a story.
8:19pmNOBLE
it can be ran like topicals. you can give them a topic or an image
8:19pmEtH
Best rapper wins. It's like having a contest to see which major poet has the best voice. Wouldn't be a fan personally.
8:19pmNOBLE
and aren't topicals rap?
that depends on the voter. not everyone looks at things one-dimensionally
8:20pmEtH
I know plenty of topical writers who use NO elements from rap, and it works
Just like I know plenty that use no elements from poetry you know. It's kind of everything together which you don't get in the rap only format.
Dono's spoken word shit would kill anything Stricc could write I'd imagine, but no chance he'd win.
8:21pmNOBLE
I don't think saying it in audio makes it necessarily non-poetic or non-topical
at the same time, this IS a rap website, so there's absolutely nothing wrong with a topical having a rap element
8:23pmNOBLE
I don't agree
if it was all about voice, there's no way Dono would even be regarded as highly as he is
people here understand topicals
and to the extent that they don't, we can help them get there
8:24pmEtH
This would be TOO much about rap. It's basically poetry with rap elements, and not the other way around. It wouldn't work out that way with rapping. Slick Rick is considered one of the best rap storytellers of all time, says it all.
It's like bringing a book into a movie. It can work out, but it always cuts out a lot.
8:25pmEtH
Only the way I'd see it you know. I'm not actually a huge non-track audio fan tbh
8:25pmNOBLE
Rap is poetry though
8:26pmEtH
I've heard that a lot, I never believed it though. Rap has NONE of the elements poetry has with the exception of lyricism to me.
8:26pmNOBLE
R.A.P = (Rhythm And Poetry)
8:26pmEtH
And peoms barley have any lyriciscm.
8:26pmNOBLE
there are many different styles to poetry
without a beat, that's all rap is
8:27pmEtH
Rap is rhythm and rhyming to me. The storytelling is basic, in nearly all forms of rap, and there is next to no imagery.
8:27pmNOBLE
don't topicals often rhyme?
and rap doesn't have to rhyme
8:28pmEtH
Immortal Technique - Dance with the Devil, often regarded as one of the strongest pieces of storytewlling in rap, to which I agree, but it's nothing compared to ACTUAL storytelling.
Yeah topicals always rhyme.
8:28pmNOBLE
the storytelling doesn't have to be basic
8:28pmEtH
But it always is.
8:28pmNOBLE
it depends on who you're listening to
and ther is plenty of imagery in rap
8:28pmEtH
I'm actually not a big rap fan tbh anymore.
8:28pmNOBLE
you sound like someone who's not a rap fan
8:29pmEtH
Yeah I've fallen out of it in recent years. I just listen to my few favourite songs and that's about it.
8:29pmNOBLE
word
some people who don't like rap don't even consider it music
I guess you have to be a true fan to see it as music as well as poetry and art
8:30pmEtH
Yeah "It's just words" smh lol. I don't really regard it an "artform" though. Lady Gaga isn't an artist to me either though. The people making the music is the artist imo.
Dre is the artist, Em isn't imo.
8:31pmNOBLE
its two different types of art
8:32pmEtH
People who act in rap show art though. Like 2pac's emotional ranges etc. Eminem has some slight examples, but I feel his more emotional recent stuff to be VERY false.
8:32pmNOBLE
that's like saying Picasso isn't an artist. it's the person who made the acrylic paint he used that's the real artist
8:33pmEtH
It just doesn't seem that hard to be able to spit a few bars. I feel like, given the few natural talents the guys have, I could EASILY do what any normal rapper in the world can do, 2pac being the only hard one to replicate.

In summary, I don't really see rap as a form of poetry or a demonstration of art. I think it's exactly what it says on the tin, and it's guys spitting bars on music. The how to rap books and everything are over complicated and give false illusions of what rap is.

For anyone in UK/Ireland, I believe there was a TV show on Channel 4 called Life of Rhyme, where it showed a school teaching Devlin lyrics to a class. I thought this was JUST a way for the school to be "down with the kids", and comparing Devlin's lyrics to even a simple piece of poetry like Elizabeth Bishop's "The Trout" shows the big contrast in rap and actual poetry.

[NOBLE]

My position is, Rap IS Poetry. Rap isn't limited to spitting on a beat, and without a beat, all you pretty much have left is poetry. Saying Rap doesn't have any of the elements of poetry is assuming that poetry only has one style/format. There are many types of poetry (haiku, etc). And Rap DOES use poetic elements. Metaphor is a poetic element. I can give countless examples of metaphor, alliteration, onomatopoeia and all these other elements of poetry in Rap.

[Murderous Swag]

Lmao ETH trying to clown audio side of things

Not it's nothing to do with the "audio side". I had this exact debate on Netcees. This time I didn't bring it up, so it's not my usual "Speak down on rap on a rap site to cause a stir" kind of shit haha.

There are some slight poetic techniques in rap, but not enough for me to compare them. Metaphors are also present in movies, but I wouldn't really say movies are rap or poetry either. I just don't listen to rap and feel it's the same. For example, go onto Rap Genius. Look at the expo for all of their words. You can literally go to town dissecting the never ending metaphors in Shakespear, but like a 4 word expo is needed for almost any metaphor in any rap song. It's a completely different level. The only thing rap has, when stripped down, over poetry is lyricism. Mix all of those intricate little details of poetry, in with the flow and lyricism of rap, and you have my view of a topical.

[ILLoKWENT]

poetry =literary art used in different styles of writing techniques to evoke emotive response..

rap =a form of poetry.. art. utilizing words spoken in rhthm flow and/or rhyme .

topical= a piece with a main subject or focus ..ex. an essay.

anymore questions?

^Michael Moles or Henrik Larsson?

[ILLoKWENT]

Movies/books/=type of medium created for the purpose of entertainment or learning..
art=a subjective notion describing ones creation.,in different forms or medium.. ex. martial arts.

Rap goes into the entertainment pile for me.

[Student]

If You Don't Think Rap Is Poetry, You Aren't Listening To Real Rap. Nuff Said.