Can we understand God???

[Louie Dawgs]

Of course not. God, in the western, orthodox sense is fundamentally unkowable, and seperate from the human experience.

What I mean by this is that the attributes of god, or the nature of god must exist at a level, a plane if you will above the level of human understanding.

First, we must establish a baseline of human understanding, a fundamentally epistemological reading of the limits of human knowledge. At heart, human knowledge is driven by experience. While I don't think that all human knowledge is held within the confines of experience, it serves as the primogeniture, and in ways the limit of non deducible conclusions.

For example, in calculus we have the concept of a limit. One of the things that a limit does is suggest movement at any exact moment in time. Consider, for example if we were able to just freeze time, ala Bruce Almighty. How can we measure movement?? At any particular, singular point in time movement, in the absolute sense does not exist, things are still. A limit allows us to understand how fasts objects are moving in this moment of time, even though objects are not moving, per se. Nobody has ever sat down, stopped time and figured this out, this is a deductible conclusion, and it's ideas have helped to drive human progress.

However, understated in this example is the fact that each and every one of the facets in the reasoning and the argument can, in some way be traced back to experience. Deductible reasoning leads us to conclusions about what we already know.

But, as I stated before God is something that we cannot know, because we cannot experience it.

What does this mean???

First, what is god??

He must be omnipotent. All powerful. Or else, he wouldn't be god, that's a part of his nature.

Part of absolute omnipotence is that god must be absolutely self-sufficient and self-sustaning. What this concludes to is quite simple. Nothing, and I mean nothing can exist outside of him. God transcends all existence, save for his own.

But there is more!! Nothing, and I literally mean nothing can be equivalent to him. Omnipotence implies dominance. You cannot be all powerful over something if you are equal to it. God must transcend everything. Everything must exist in him, since nothing can exist outside of him, but it also must exist in a transcendent form. He (in an anthropomorphic sense is anything and everything, +1)

This, makes him unknowable. Remember, before I stated that all knowledge is started with experience. We cannot experience god. We cannot experience what transcends existence, existence is the essence of experience.

An omnipotent god MUST be unknowable.

So then, what is (if it even exists) god??

The answer, and it's somewhat facetious can only be this. God is as we can best understand, the transcendent form of everything. Everything, plus one. God is the red redder then the reddest red. A love stronger than the strongest love, a hate stronger than the strongest hate.

Some of it, is admittedly illogical, although that's sort of my point. God is the atom, +1 (some transcendent form). God is the transcendent form of fun. The transcendent form of death, the transcendent form of life, ect, ect.

I'm not sure if this is a form of pantheism or not, I haven't really decided that in my mind.

I don't honestly think that a god exists, but if it did it would be unknowable to me anyway, as it must exist outside of my understanding.


This is just a rough throwdown of a very long string of thoughts I'm putting together. Nobody will probably read this, but it was good for me to get it down in written form and start sorting out some of the finer points anyway.

I find it difficult to even put it into words, but the understanding of whatever created the universe is completely beyond our thought capabilities. You literally can't even spitball ideas towards it because no matter what combination of thoughts we put together, it will never be any where near the level it will have to be. Perhaps some time, but not any time soon for the human race. It'd be like teaching a dog algebra, or trying to understand Grizz.

[Louie Dawgs]

Yes, something like that. It's like teaching Lizman english.

[Phroxen]

I read all your shit.. you could've just written "I don't honestly think that a god exists" and it would've equated the same thing. Existential tangents, although fun, often cause infinite loops of clashing logical and illogical reasoning.


TL;DR: Humans made up God to fuck with your ever-so-malleable brain.

[Rhetorical]

Originally Posted by Phroxen

I read all your shit.. you could've just written "I don't honestly think that a god exists" and it would've equated the same thing. Existential tangents, although fun, often cause infinite loops of clashing logical and illogical reasoning.


TL;DR: Humans made up God to fuck with your ever-so-malleable brain.

Co-Signs.

[Louie Dawgs]

Originally Posted by Phroxen

I read all your shit.. you could've just written "I don't honestly think that a god exists" and it would've equated the same thing. Existential tangents, although fun, often cause infinite loops of clashing logical and illogical reasoning.


TL;DR: Humans made up God to fuck with your ever-so-malleable brain.

Just because I believe something doesn't somehow allow that to stand by itself.

---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 PM ----------

Originally Posted by pULSe

God isn't made up tbh. You'd have to be extremely ignorant and to put it blatantly, stupid..if you don't acknowledge that a force/being/energy created man. There's different objective lenses to look at it through. Scientific, spiritual, etc

maybe it isn't the same God you and I know it to be, like the one from the Bible. The one others call "Allah", etc etc

There's similarities in many monotheistic religions, leading me to believe that initially, someone, somewhere, knew something. And since knowledge is power, why not corrupt the texts and stick your hand into history, distorting it, to protect priceless, precious, to-kill-for, information

You could always refute this by saying "prove it" or "show me someone that's met God", etc etc. But it wouldn't be a debate if the faith aspect + the logical reasoning that someone(s) knew something wasn't in the mix

Well obviously man was created by some force...evolution.

I get that the fact we can't exactly explain how the universe started, and obviously the question of a prime mover is very hard to answer, but I don't think that that automatically should lead us to god, although I sympathize with the argument and honestly that's the only reason why I think god might exist.

[Godbody]

God isn't made up tbh. You'd have to be extremely ignorant and to put it blatantly, stupid..if you don't acknowledge that a force/being/energy created man. There's different objective lenses to look at it through. Scientific, spiritual, etc

maybe it isn't the same God you and I know it to be, like the one from the Bible. The one others call "Allah", etc etc

There's similarities in many monotheistic religions, leading me to believe that initially, someone, somewhere, knew something. And since knowledge is power, why not corrupt the texts and stick your hand into history, distorting it, to protect priceless, precious, to-kill-for, information

You could always refute this by saying "prove it" or "show me someone that's met God", etc etc. But it wouldn't be a debate if the faith aspect + the logical reasoning that someone(s) knew something wasn't in the mix

[ILLoKWENT]

the actual GOD ,is ancient astronauts who seeded this planet and gave humans the technology to advance thruout early history... dont believe me, http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ma...pirireis04.htm heres an example..and explain it.. to me..

[J u s T C]

God is just the good side of the coin for ancient law makers, nothing more.

[BENSON THA GREAT]

Originally Posted by Just C

God is just the good side of the coin for ancient law makers, nothing more.

@Just C are u willing to gamble your eternal destiny on that logic? If your right... Oh well... If your wrong... A big price to pay for eternity... Are u certain?